On mSecure 6, both Windows 11 and iOS 15.3.1, with the setting to auto-copy passwords when visiting URLs, the password does not get copied to the clipboard.  The button to copy the password does work, and if I remember to do it before clicking the link I get almost the same experience I had with previous versions.

Two things that may be relevant here:

1. I am still on my 30-day trial of essentials (but do plan to upgrade to premium)

2. I have altered My Login template from the default, specifically I have two password fields.  I keep the previous password in a second field along with an added date field to remind me when I last changed it.  (I had changed this long ago using version 5 and it has always worked fine, until the upgrade to 6.)

Is this a known bug?

Hi Mike

Turns out this is not so straightforward as I thought. I haven't detected any kind of a pattern to it, but some sites consistently work (meaning that after I click the URL, the password is copied to the clipboard) and other sites consistently fail (meaning that after I click the URL, the contents of the clipboard are unchanged).

This is the kind of feature I am so used to using that it becomes second nature, and I only notice when it doesn't work. I cannot remember whether the password for this forum was copied to the clipboard last night when I logged in to enter this comment. But I know for certain that after seeing that you had responded, I visited this forum and the password WAS copied to my clipboard. However, the next time I tried it, and every time since, the password was not copied to the clipboard for this forum's record.  This is the only record I can say with certainty worked and then stopped working.  I did not edit it.

I have added several password fields to my Login template.  The most obvious pattern I thought of was that maybe it was failing on the ones that contain more than one password; but I've seen it fail on sites with only one and work on a site with every security question filled in.   It's not whether they are marked as favorites or not, it's not whether they are tagged or not, and it's not whether the site is already logged in or not.  And as I mentioned in the OP, it also happens on my iPhone.  I did not check to see whether it consistently works or fails on the same sites on the iPhone as in Windows 11.  So far, I have not been keeping written track of which ones work and which ones don't, though I do remember some for certain that work and that don't work.

I'll be happy to provide whatever information I can that may help you figure out how to reproduce this, or try some experiments if you have any hunches (I am a software QA engineer).  I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, and these are mostly records that have been working for years, until the upgrade to mSecure 6.  So I think it has to be a bug.

I have attached a .png of my template file. Most logins use this template so I can't say I've tried any others. The template was created using an earlier version of mSecure.  I couldn't say which one, but I've been a user for many years.

Let me know what you'd like me to try or any other information I can provide. 

Jerry

Hi Mike

I'm not sure exactly how "first" is defined, but in my experience it has always copied from the built-in password field from the default Login template, and that's what I was expecting and what I wanted.

One difference between what you described and what I'm doing is that I only copy the password, not the user name.  I tried setting the preference to copy both, and then tried one of the records that doesn't work for me.  After clicking the URL link for that record, the user name is copied to the clipboard, but not the password.  Then I tried one that has been working and it copied both the username and password.  (In all cases, there is no slash between the user name and password, as implied by your comment.  I don't know the normal behavior as I haven't been doing it this way.)

Sounds to me like the problem may be data related.  So I experimented a little by recreating one of the records that fails, and although I did find that there are two different URL fields in my template (probably just a mistake on my part), no matter which one I click, it fails in the existing record and works in the recreated record.  If I can find a way to make it fail in the recreated record, that should give you repro steps.  I'm in the middle of my work day, so I need to be testing the software I get paid to test. ;o)

But I'll play with it later and let you know whether I can make it happen or not.  Thanks.

Hi Mike

I understand what's happening now.  The sequence of fields in many of my records do not match the sequence of the Login template.  For some records (and that happens to be the ones I use most frequently), the main password field was not the first and so it was not captured to the clipboard.

But why wasn’t it the first?  It’s the first field in my Login template.  I have noticed since the upgrade to 6 that the field sequence of the records I’ve edited was strange.  I am sure I didn’t do that myself, and I’m sure I never saw it before the upgrade to 6.  I had it on the back burner, but now it has a material effect.

Are there any known scenarios when field sequences can change after upgrading to mSecure 6?  Is there a way I can make them all match the template sequence, or do I have to fix the field sequences one by one?  And if I do that, how likely is it that whatever changed them in the first place changes them again?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Mike

Thanks for the tip, but unfortunately that didn't work.  I changed the template order and saved several times, and it seems to have no effect on any existing records.  I tried a different template that has only 6 records.  All 6 were in the same sequence, but a different sequence than the template.  I changed the template sequence to match the records, then changed it to something else.  None of the records changed.

Looks like I may have to manually change the field order of a lot of records, unless you have any other ideas?  (Put in a feature request for a "Restore Template" button when editing a record.) 

Hi Mike

I realize this is kind of a new topic, but with regard to this template/field order problem (the ultimate cause of password copy not working), it seems that the template model in mSecure6 is this:

• A template is nothing more than a starting point - a set of fields in a particular sequence that provides a structure for a new record
• Once created, each record has its own independent set of fields - independent from all other records made by the same template, and independent of the template itself
• That goes for the field names/types, field sequence, visibility, everything - there is no such thing as changing a template and having that template apply to existing records

Hi Mike

Your first comment above about changing from one template to another suggests a strategy that might work for me.  Maybe I can make a template identical to the login template and then switch the errant records to that one and then back to login.  Something to try anyway. 

Export is really not important to me anyway, I just cited it as one apparent flaw in a model that potentially has a different field structure for each record.  (Note I said to standard formats like .csv, by which I meant exchanging the data with a different program.  I'm sure mSecure can interpret its own flavor of .csv, but I wouldn't imagine, say, Excel would make much sense of .csv data that has a different number of fields in a different sequence in every row.  But this is all moot, because as I said import/export isn't all that important to me.)  The other two flaws I cited are more important to me: having to fix the records that no longer copy the passwords like they used to; and having the flexibility down the road to add a field to a template and have it appear in all records for that template.

So I was really asking, and still am, if you have any doc about the benefits of that model.  It seems to me a bad design choice, but I'm probably missing something.  I'd like to understand what the upside is.

I'm sorry if I implied that you said I must've reordered the fields myself.  You neither said nor implied any such thing.  That just the software QA guy in me analyzing the problem and concluding that, although user error is often the cause of strange anomalies, it couldn't have been so widespread as what I'm seeing.

I think there is a bug in there somewhere, but I can't imagine there's enough info to reproduce it.  I'm not even sure it happened entirely in the transition from 5 to 6 or if it happened in an earlier upgrade.  I do know that you would fix it if I could give you repro steps.  And to best of my knowledge no data was lost.

My saying I was "considering alternatives" overstated my position a little, not intentionally.  "Thinking about thinking about alternatives" is a better description, and it's a combination of events that's led me to that point.  First, some of my records are a mess.  Some have very few fields (probably only the ones that had data) and many have fields out of sequence, particularly the password field moved to the bottom.  Until I saw your comment about switching templates, I believed I had hours of cleanup work to do - the kind of work I would have to do if I switched password managers, so I thought why do it twice if there's a more suitable solution out there.  (I'm a bit of a neat freak when it comes to data, so I am not one who can just be happy moving my password field up in the sequence - which admittedly is my own contribution to making this task more difficult.)  Also I just bought a Norton 360, which comes with a password manager (not a good one, at first glance).   And it's cosmetic only and I suspect it may correct itself over time, but a lot of my records have TD Ameritrade icon for some reason

So all these things got me thinking about thinking - but not actually thinking yet.  I'm likely sticking with mSecure, especially if the template trick helps restore my field sequence .  (It's still an edit of all records, but switch-save-switch back is much easier than reordering 17 fields and recreating many records where fields - empty ones I believe - were lost.)

All in all, mSecure has been good to me over the years, and the support has been good when I've needed it.  So although I'm not thrilled about the template model and how it's put a big task on my plate, I know and trust mSecure, I plan to take advantage of the sharing feature, I like tags rather than groups (I'm one whose groups were lost, but not concerned about that), and am really looking forward to the record linking feature.  So it's unlikely I'll really be jumping ship.

Thanks for all your help.

Jerry

Hi Mike

The original problem is that passwords stopped auto-copying when I clicked the URL from mSecure. This happened with many of my records, and is what started this thread.

The cause of this problem was the sequence of fields in the record, which after the upgrade to mSecure6 no longer matched the sequence in the template. My Login template has 5 password fields, the upgrade caused the empty ones to move up in the field sequence for many of my records.

The simplest solution for me is, whenever I encounter this problem, to move the Password field up so it's the first Password field in the list. Annoying, and leaves my data in an untidy state which I do not like, but grudgingly workable I guess. This is what I'll do.

But discovering the cause of this problem has me scratching my head as to the benefits of the 'feature' that caused this problem for me. If you don't have a document that explains the benefit of this feature, can you give me a bullet point? Field sequence bugs aside, why on earth would a user ever want templates decoupled from record data? I can't think of a single reason.

I don't have a backup. And even if I did, I've made changes since the upgrade.

There has never been a problem clicking the clipboard icon and explicitly copying a field's contents. This only refers to the auto-copy. My preference is set to auto-copy the password only, not the user name.

As to your last paragraph, which I'll repeat here:

One other thing, regarding adding a field to a template and it being added to all your records, I do see some convenience in this, but so far as I can tell, it only saves a couple of clicks and typing in a label for the record when you edit it next. You still have to add the data to the record, so each record would need to be edited even if you could add a field to the template. Again, I do see the value in it, and it's not impossible for this feature to be added to the current app, I'm just trying to figure out if I'm missing something big that would add a lot more value to being able to do this.

Yes, I think you are. You must be assuming that I might want to add one field to one record every once in awhile.

First, a little more info about this problem that you don't yet have. It seems there are two ways my records were changed by the upgrade, which I'll call Model 1 and Model 2.

Model 1 is the one that manifested the original problem. In Model 1, the fields that contain no data are moved to the top. Since I have 5 Password fields in my Login template, those records would no longer copy my password when I clicked the URL. (More specifically, they 'copied' the first Password field, which was empty.)

In Model 2, the fields that contain no data are removed. This seems to be far more common. These records didn't manifest the copy problem, since the empty Password fields were removed. But when I want to edit those records - which usually means I want to add something to them - the template fields I hadn't populated (yet) are missing.

Model 2 is actually a much worse problem for me.  Changing the order of existing fields is much easier than adding fields.

My Login template has 17 fields (2-3 of which are admittedly redundant or unnecessary, which I may remove someday). Among these are 6 Security Question and Security Answer fields (3 each). The Security Answers are Password fields, which I use in place of the 'true' answers. There are also Previous Password and Date Changed fields.

Imagine I go to a website and I decide to set up the security questions. This website has 3 and I want to provide them all. I now have to add 6 fields and type in the names Security Question 1, Security Answer 1, etc. I realize it would take less time than typing this paragraph, but I already made these fields, why do I have to make them again? And when I do, I'm making them in this one record only, so I'll have to repeat it for every record.

Imagine I go to another website and want to change my password. Normally I would just copy from the Password to the Previous Password field, select today's date, and then click the button in Password to generate a new password. But if the fields have been removed, I need to recreate them first, which is more work than the few clicks it takes to populate them.

This applies to the current problem I have with the way mSecure has upgraded my records, but that was presumably a bug - a side effect of the change in design to decouple the record data from the template, not an effect of the design itself.

Imagine instead that I had say 100 records using a Login template that did not have the Security Question/Answer fields or the change password fields, and I decide to change that template. Now I want to start using those new fields, but instead of them being there in records created using the template, I have to recreate them - in every record where I want to use them.

Of course it saves more than just a couple of clicks if the fields in my template are unrelated to the records.

That's the price I'm paying for mSecure decoupling record data from the template. I'd really like to know what I'm paying it for. That's why I'm asking what the benefit of this decoupling is. It appears to me to be all cost and no benefit, especially given the bugs that manifested during the upgrade. Maybe I'm missing something.

Lastly, regarding the bug itself. You might have a shot at recreating it using my Login template.  Here is a screenshot. 

Maybe if you populate it in mSecure5 and upgrade to 6, you'll see the same issue I'm seeing.  It won't help me at this point, but maybe it will help other users.